More About Farenheit 9/11 and the Bush's Re-election
Okay, I guess I need to make another post to clarify my views about Bush even further.
First let us take the point of Dave Kopel's response being fallacious. Someone asked me to point out which ones specifically were fallacious. Here are a few examples.
Deceit 1 - Mr. Kopel says that Moore "creates the impression that Gore was celebrating his victory in Florida".
Just because Kopel got that impression, does not mean it is a deceit. Anyone who has a decent memory of events that happened four years ago will remember that Gore never celebrated victory in Florida. It is very clearly, a campaign rally.
Deceit 2 - "Moore thus creates the false impression that the networks withdrew their claim about Gore winning Florida when they heard that Fox said that Bush won Florida."
Here Kopel himself is indulging in hair splitting. He argues in detail that Fox was not the first network to retract the claim of a Gore win in Florida. That is fine. But the point Moore makes is that Fox was the first to claim that Bush had actually won Florida. Clearly there is a difference between "retracting Gore victory" and "declaring Bush victory". And Fox was the first channel to claim a Bush victory, as Moore alleges.
Deceit 6 - Shortly before 9/11, the Post calculated that Bush had spent 42 percent of his presidency at vacation spots or en route, including all or part of 54 days at his ranch. That calculation, however, includes weekends, which Moore failed to mention.
Did all presidents before Bush take off from Washington every Friday night? I remember Clinton meeting Nawaz Sharif on July 4 to diffuse the Kargil tension. The point is whether there were weekends included or not is immaterial. The point is that 42% of the time was spent at vacation spots, and not in Washington. Even if you take the 28% time(weekends) away, you have a dude who spent around 20% of his working days on vacation. That too when he had just taken office.
Deceit 7 - Fahrenheit mocks President Bush for continuing to read the book My Pet Goat to a classroom of elementary school children after he was told about the September 11 attacks. Moore does not offer any suggestion about what the President should have done during those seven minutes, rather than staying calm for the sake of the classroom and of the public. Nor does Moore point to any way that the September 11 events might have turned out better in even the slightest way if the President had acted differently.
Well, Moore does not seem to claim that the President's staying in the school made matters worse. Not a relevant argument.
Deceit 18 - Moore points out the distressingly close relationship between Saudi Arabia’s ambassador, Prince Bandar, and the Bush family. But Moore does not explain that Bandar has been a bipartisan Washington power broker for decades, and that Bill Clinton repeatedly relied on Bandar to advance Clinton’s own Middle East agenda.
This is classical "tu coque". What is relevant is Bandar's (side joke - a bandar(monkey) being friendly with Bush....ROFL!!) and the Saudi royals' close links with Bush.
Most of the deceits listed are like this. Notice, I say "most", not all. Some of them are pretty valid. Hey, I am not saying Moore's film is perfect. There are bound to be mistakes, some inadvertant, some deliberate. Starkly noticeable is the complete absence of any mention of Israel. My opinion is that the film is based, by and large on facts. And what Dave Kopel does is split hairs, very rarely challenging facts.
Now moving on to some more clarification. Please read my post once again. I have just appreciated the documentary, its collation of facts, and its potential to be damaging to Bush. Nowhere have I said that I support John Kerry against George Bush. Why?
Because I don't!! My support, for whatever it is worth, goes to George Bush.
Why? Because I am an Indian, and for me it is India's national interests that matter. I am not going to get caught up in excessive Leftist propoganda, and support a guy who is even more idiotic than Dubya.
As things stand right now, India's interests are served better by a Republican administration than a Democrat one. The Democrats themselves are not peaceniks with white wings and a halo around their head. The sanctions that crippled Iraq were carried out by the Dems. Remember Madeline Albright's chilling statement about the 5 million Iraqi children dying being a fair price. Be it Kennedy's Bay of Pigs and Vietnam, or be it LBJ's Vietnam adventures, or be it the numerous adventures in Latin America, the democrats have proven themselves to be as imperial.
What makes me wary of Kerry and co, is their zeal about reviving the CTBT debate. From an Indian point of view, this is uneasily reminiscent of the Clinton era when the Americans acted like bullies with us.
Kerry's views about outsourcing to India are well known. Why the hell should I support a guy who has only bad things to say about my country, when we are taking American jobs fair and square. We ain;t stealing them. It is just economic reality.
So if you compare Kerry and Bush from an Indian viewpoint, there are very few plusses for the Democrat. So for what it is worth(not much I know), my support goes to Bush.
I am not afflicted with the pre-PVN-Rao disease of thinking about the world before thinking about India. I was disappointed by people poring out on the streets in India to oppose the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Where are these people when we need to protest something relevant? Can someone provide me with details about candle-vigils or support rallies on the streets of Baghdad or Kabul when 52 innocent lives were lost in the blast in Mumbai last year?
Basically, no one gives a damn about extending "moral" support to us. It is all about national interest. And thinking from a national interest point of view, all Indians not bitten by the left-bug should hope for a Bush win.
Of course, I am amused at why the Republicans came up with an idiot like Bush to lead the country. And why the Democrats come up with idiots like Gore and Kerry. But let us support the friendlier idiot, George W Bush.
Okay, I guess I need to make another post to clarify my views about Bush even further.
First let us take the point of Dave Kopel's response being fallacious. Someone asked me to point out which ones specifically were fallacious. Here are a few examples.
Deceit 1 - Mr. Kopel says that Moore "creates the impression that Gore was celebrating his victory in Florida".
Just because Kopel got that impression, does not mean it is a deceit. Anyone who has a decent memory of events that happened four years ago will remember that Gore never celebrated victory in Florida. It is very clearly, a campaign rally.
Deceit 2 - "Moore thus creates the false impression that the networks withdrew their claim about Gore winning Florida when they heard that Fox said that Bush won Florida."
Here Kopel himself is indulging in hair splitting. He argues in detail that Fox was not the first network to retract the claim of a Gore win in Florida. That is fine. But the point Moore makes is that Fox was the first to claim that Bush had actually won Florida. Clearly there is a difference between "retracting Gore victory" and "declaring Bush victory". And Fox was the first channel to claim a Bush victory, as Moore alleges.
Deceit 6 - Shortly before 9/11, the Post calculated that Bush had spent 42 percent of his presidency at vacation spots or en route, including all or part of 54 days at his ranch. That calculation, however, includes weekends, which Moore failed to mention.
Did all presidents before Bush take off from Washington every Friday night? I remember Clinton meeting Nawaz Sharif on July 4 to diffuse the Kargil tension. The point is whether there were weekends included or not is immaterial. The point is that 42% of the time was spent at vacation spots, and not in Washington. Even if you take the 28% time(weekends) away, you have a dude who spent around 20% of his working days on vacation. That too when he had just taken office.
Deceit 7 - Fahrenheit mocks President Bush for continuing to read the book My Pet Goat to a classroom of elementary school children after he was told about the September 11 attacks. Moore does not offer any suggestion about what the President should have done during those seven minutes, rather than staying calm for the sake of the classroom and of the public. Nor does Moore point to any way that the September 11 events might have turned out better in even the slightest way if the President had acted differently.
Well, Moore does not seem to claim that the President's staying in the school made matters worse. Not a relevant argument.
Deceit 18 - Moore points out the distressingly close relationship between Saudi Arabia’s ambassador, Prince Bandar, and the Bush family. But Moore does not explain that Bandar has been a bipartisan Washington power broker for decades, and that Bill Clinton repeatedly relied on Bandar to advance Clinton’s own Middle East agenda.
This is classical "tu coque". What is relevant is Bandar's (side joke - a bandar(monkey) being friendly with Bush....ROFL!!) and the Saudi royals' close links with Bush.
Most of the deceits listed are like this. Notice, I say "most", not all. Some of them are pretty valid. Hey, I am not saying Moore's film is perfect. There are bound to be mistakes, some inadvertant, some deliberate. Starkly noticeable is the complete absence of any mention of Israel. My opinion is that the film is based, by and large on facts. And what Dave Kopel does is split hairs, very rarely challenging facts.
Now moving on to some more clarification. Please read my post once again. I have just appreciated the documentary, its collation of facts, and its potential to be damaging to Bush. Nowhere have I said that I support John Kerry against George Bush. Why?
Because I don't!! My support, for whatever it is worth, goes to George Bush.
Why? Because I am an Indian, and for me it is India's national interests that matter. I am not going to get caught up in excessive Leftist propoganda, and support a guy who is even more idiotic than Dubya.
As things stand right now, India's interests are served better by a Republican administration than a Democrat one. The Democrats themselves are not peaceniks with white wings and a halo around their head. The sanctions that crippled Iraq were carried out by the Dems. Remember Madeline Albright's chilling statement about the 5 million Iraqi children dying being a fair price. Be it Kennedy's Bay of Pigs and Vietnam, or be it LBJ's Vietnam adventures, or be it the numerous adventures in Latin America, the democrats have proven themselves to be as imperial.
What makes me wary of Kerry and co, is their zeal about reviving the CTBT debate. From an Indian point of view, this is uneasily reminiscent of the Clinton era when the Americans acted like bullies with us.
Kerry's views about outsourcing to India are well known. Why the hell should I support a guy who has only bad things to say about my country, when we are taking American jobs fair and square. We ain;t stealing them. It is just economic reality.
So if you compare Kerry and Bush from an Indian viewpoint, there are very few plusses for the Democrat. So for what it is worth(not much I know), my support goes to Bush.
I am not afflicted with the pre-PVN-Rao disease of thinking about the world before thinking about India. I was disappointed by people poring out on the streets in India to oppose the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Where are these people when we need to protest something relevant? Can someone provide me with details about candle-vigils or support rallies on the streets of Baghdad or Kabul when 52 innocent lives were lost in the blast in Mumbai last year?
Basically, no one gives a damn about extending "moral" support to us. It is all about national interest. And thinking from a national interest point of view, all Indians not bitten by the left-bug should hope for a Bush win.
Of course, I am amused at why the Republicans came up with an idiot like Bush to lead the country. And why the Democrats come up with idiots like Gore and Kerry. But let us support the friendlier idiot, George W Bush.
